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Blooded
 Posts: 412
Post 11 written Jul 1, 2016 at 18:56
Oh, it will happen. They can't ignore the will of the people.

I would like the UK to be a beacon of light for you all. The dominoes are falling, the question is who's next to follow us out of the abyss. We'll light the way for you to follow.
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 Posts: 3051
Post 12 written Aug 5, 2016 at 16:48
It will be interesting to see what the future holds that's for sure. Things are deteriorating fast here as a result of all these lovely refugees we are now swamped with, girls are getting gang raped right and left, huge increase in general violent crime and all the politicians and the leftist media are doing is blaming men collectively (while strongly insinuating it's only the white ones of northern descent who are the real problem).

Glorious times lay ahead
He who seeks, searches.

Honored
 Posts: 1052
Post 13 written Sep 28, 2016 at 11:48
As Darkness knows I have very different opinions to you three! I'm not here to argue that these acts described haven't happened, but I don't think a percentage of immigrants from the Middle East and Africa committing these acts mean we should conclude that all immigrants should be denied access.

Most of EU's external immigrants are refugees fleeing persecution and terror - https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees It is a crisis and these are people needing to be helped. Like I've said, I'm not denying that a percentage are committing terrible acts, and such people need to be sent to jail or sent out of the country. But for the rest these are simply people needing help. I find it abhorrent to think every refugee seeking help should be denied.

However, accepting refugees is only a short-term solution. Something long-term has to be done to stop these people needing to flee their homelands in the first place.

Keep in mind the danger of arguing that a lot of social problems in the west are as a result of immigrants. This thinking has caused a marked increase in hate crime towards immigrants of all kinds in the UK, with the Polish being attacked frequently - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/07/hate-surged-after-eu-referendum-police-figures-show

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Post 14 written Sep 29, 2016 at 20:48
Hey there, long time, welcome back to Freaks!  

I wouldn't say the opinion is "very" different to my own, as I also don't feel all refugees seeking help should be denied just because of a few rotten apples in the basket. However, I do think it's a pretty mindbogglingly ineffective form of help to basically import large parts of far away countries populations all the way up to northern Europe to house them here, especially since it's currently wearing down particularly our economy to where anything from railroads and general infrastructure to police forces and hospitals are now failing to a very noticable degree due to lack of resources and funds.

I really do think all the money we spend on taking 1 refugee here would be better spent helping 10 or more refugees closer to their original home lands, especially since it tends to be the stronger and more well off younger males who come here, leaving the truly poor and helpless, and the women and the children, behind.

As you point out, I just think there has to be a better long term solution to fixing the problems at home so ALL the people who live in the conflicted countries could be "saved", rather than just the rather large handful that makes it all the way up here. But it's certainly not an easy problem either way you look at it.
He who seeks, searches.

Honored
 Posts: 1052
Post 15 written Sep 30, 2016 at 11:39
Hey there, long time, welcome back to Freaks!

I wouldn't say the opinion is "very" different to my own, as I also don't feel all refugees seeking help should be denied just because of a few rotten apples in the basket. However, I do think it's a pretty mindbogglingly ineffective form of help to basically import large parts of far away countries populations all the way up to northern Europe to house them here, especially since it's currently wearing down particularly our economy to where anything from railroads and general infrastructure to police forces and hospitals are now failing to a very noticable degree due to lack of resources and funds.

I really do think all the money we spend on taking 1 refugee here would be better spent helping 10 or more refugees closer to their original home lands, especially since it tends to be the stronger and more well off younger males who come here, leaving the truly poor and helpless, and the women and the children, behind.

As you point out, I just think there has to be a better long term solution to fixing the problems at home so ALL the people who live in the conflicted countries could be "saved", rather than just the rather large handful that makes it all the way up here. But it's certainly not an easy problem either way you look at it.

Hello there! Thank you, I'm really glad to be here, nice to be chatting to the old crew!

I'm glad my opinion isn't so different. That is an interesting point on the economic stress. I suppose it could be resolved by funding to those countries that are hit hardest from the refugee crisis. The funding could come from the EU or WTO.

But, yes, I don't think its a feasible long-term solution. Like you say, the way it is at the moment it doesn't help all those in crisis. I guess a counter-argument (for now) is that these people are fleeing to the west as neighboring areas might not help them, either the countries refuse to or there is similar levels of persecution and danger. I have to admit I don't know all the ins and outs.

It certainly is no easy problem. I also gather that some of the blame for the crisis can be put on some of the Wests leaders. We've directly gone to war/joined in wars in some of the countries there or sold arms out there.

Blooded
 Posts: 412
Post 16 written Oct 2, 2016 at 07:45
I thought you'd be busy planning your escape? Didn't you say in the event of a Brexit vote, you would leave the country?

I really do think all the money we spend on taking 1 refugee here would be better spent helping 10 or more refugees closer to their original home lands, especially since it tends to be the stronger and more well off younger males who come here, leaving the truly poor and helpless, and the women and the children, behind.

That's initially what our government said. Only the strong make it to our borders so they agreed to take in refugees from the camps in those countries. Then, of course, the lefties screamed that there was innocent children in the Calais Jungle. "Will please somebody think of the children!" So the government backtracked and said they will house like 20,000 kids.

God, it absolutely sickens me. When I go to central Leeds, I see homeless people on the street begging for money. But that doesn't matter. As long as you're a refugee, you can come here, get a nice comfortable house for free, live on benefits YET there is British kids having to live in the gutter. And you really wonder Ian, why we voted to leave the EU? Seriously?
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Honored
 Posts: 1052
Post 17 written Oct 3, 2016 at 11:17
I thought you'd be busy planning your escape? Didn't you say in the event of a Brexit vote, you would leave the country?

I have some ideas in the pipeline A lot of it depends if we hard brexit (which it looks like we will), if so I'm seriously considering moving to Scotland in the hope they go independent and re-join the EU, or consider another country entirely, like New Zealand, despite being small they have none of this toxic hate for immigrants and refugess. Also keeping an eye on the progress of The Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organisation; http://www.cfmo.org/

That's initially what our government said. Only the strong make it to our borders so they agreed to take in refugees from the camps in those countries. Then, of course, the lefties screamed that there was innocent children in the Calais Jungle. "Will please somebody think of the children!" So the government backtracked and said they will house like 20,000 kids.

So what do you think we should do with the refugees at Calais, in particular the kids?

God, it absolutely sickens me. When I go to central Leeds, I see homeless people on the street begging for money. But that doesn't matter. As long as you're a refugee, you can come here, get a nice comfortable house for free, live on benefits YET there is British kids having to live in the gutter. And you really wonder Ian, why we voted to leave the EU? Seriously?[/qupte]

Well Mike, I know all too well about the madness of homelessness in the UK, I worked in a shelter when I was younger. And as much as I'd like to see a lot more being done for the homeless, I don't distinguish from those who are homeless born in the UK as being of more worth than the homeless from any other country. Also, keep in mind that the refugee crisis is unprecedented, I don't like it but western governments had to make a decision as the problem was quite literally on their doorstep. Like I said I don't like it but homelessness gets brushed away under the carpet so to speak.


Blooded
 Posts: 412
Post 18 written Oct 3, 2016 at 19:45
Modified:  Oct 3, 2016 at 19:45
I have some ideas in the pipeline A lot of it depends if we hard brexit (which it looks like we will), if so I'm seriously considering moving to Scotland in the hope they go independent and re-join the EU, or consider another country entirely, like New Zealand, despite being small they have none of this toxic hate for immigrants and refugess. Also keeping an eye on the progress of The Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organisation; http://www.cfmo.org/

I can't believe what I'm hearing. You'd actually want to see the UK break up over this? I don't get it. What exactly do you think you can get in the EU that you won't get out of it? And that is highly unlikely to ever happen. They had the vote, they voted to remain in the UK for better or worse. Can't keep calling for a referendum just because you don't like the result.

So what do you think we should do with the refugees at Calais, in particular the kids?

The answer is simple. It's France's problem. Not ours. They're the ones who should be stopping them. They've only just announced that they're removing it or doing something with it. These refugees should be processed in the first country they get to - they should never even make it as far as France in the first place.

Well Mike, I know all too well about the madness of homelessness in the UK, I worked in a shelter when I was younger. And as much as I'd like to see a lot more being done for the homeless, I don't distinguish from those who are homeless born in the UK as being of more worth than the homeless from any other country. Also, keep in mind that the refugee crisis is unprecedented, I don't like it but western governments had to make a decision as the problem was quite literally on their doorstep. Like I said I don't like it but homelessness gets brushed away under the carpet so to speak.

Do you ever feel like you're just a little candle in a huge storm? Your way of thinking would have been applauded a few years ago. Now, the tides have turned. Now, the anti-immigration sentiment is absolutely surging across here and the EU. You have what I like to call a superman complex. You want to help everybody but in reality they're not your problem.
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 Posts: 1052
Post 19 written Oct 5, 2016 at 05:39
Modified:  Oct 5, 2016 at 05:42
I can't believe what I'm hearing. You'd actually want to see the UK break up over this? I don't get it. What exactly do you think you can get in the EU that you won't get out of it? And that is highly unlikely to ever happen. They had the vote, they voted to remain in the UK for better or worse. Can't keep calling for a referendum just because you don't like the result.

If we hard brexit, I can completely see why any country/group of people in the UK would want to leave to re-joining the EU. Leaving the EU will have such a profound impact that I totally think Scotland (or like I said anywhere else in the UK) have the right to have a referendum.

The main thing I personally would benefit from being in the EU is the open borders, it would be much more difficult (or impossible) with closed borders to casually go and teach or do casual voluntary work. People from countries outside the EU who want to just do casual work/volunteering in the EU are generally subjected to limiting work visas. I do see some benefits to leaving the EU in some ways, but like I've said before on galaxy, I'd only be comfortable leaving the EU with a very different type of government.

The answer is simple. It's France's problem. Not ours. They're the ones who should be stopping them. They've only just announced that they're removing it or doing something with it. These refugees should be processed in the first country they get to - they should never even make it as far as France in the first place.

So to take this further, what do you think France should do? Or do you not care?

Do you ever feel like you're just a little candle in a huge storm? Your way of thinking would have been applauded a few years ago. Now, the tides have turned. Now, the anti-immigration sentiment is absolutely surging across here and the EU. You have what I like to call a superman complex. You want to help everybody but in reality they're not your problem.

Not at all, an awful lot of people voted to stay in EU. Outside of UK, there are some countries where the majority of the population may want to leave and there are some that do not. Although there is increased talk of other exits from nationalistic parties, I don't know if one could really say that the tide has turned. Look at the evidence yourself; https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/frexit-nexit-or-oexit-who-will-be-next-to-leave-the-eu

A superman complex?! A feel this is very much moving away from a debate and more toward name-calling.  But I'll try with a dignified response. You say I want to help everybody. I ask you who do you want to help? How far does your empathy for other human beings extend? Only for those born in the UK? Or only England? Or only your county? Or only your town? Or only yourself? Although I've accepted throughout this debate that the refugee problem is complicated with no easy answers, I struggle to understand palming off the suffering of other human beings as not my problem.

I think the following article voices illustrates my main query, but the introduction alone will suffice if you don't wish to reach the whole thing;

""Men are running behind a truck, trying to jump up and grab on to it, so they can hitch an illegal lift into Britain. It's a self-evidently dangerous game. Like the "super-tramps" in Depression-era America who jumped on and off moving goods trains to get from city to city, these migrants are risking life and limb in search of a better life, or at least another place to be poor in.

Eighty years on, who fails to feel sympathy for the victims of economic and political world turmoil in the 1930s who left their homes or were driven to the adventurous lifestyle described by WH Davies in his Autobiography of a Super-Tramp? Perhaps one day these truck-jumpers will be celebrated as heroes or mourned as victims. But right now there is little compassion for those who come across a continent or a world in search of a life in Britain: no curiosity about motives, no pity for need, no recognition of potential.

Why are the nerves of empathy severed when it comes to immigration?"" - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/02/nerves-empathy-severed-immigration-daily-mail

Blooded
 Posts: 412
Post 20 written Oct 7, 2016 at 21:25
If we hard brexit, I can completely see why any country/group of people in the UK would want to leave to re-joining the EU. Leaving the EU will have such a profound impact that I totally think Scotland (or like I said anywhere else in the UK) have the right to have a referendum.

The main thing I personally would benefit from being in the EU is the open borders, it would be much more difficult (or impossible) with closed borders to casually go and teach or do casual voluntary work. People from countries outside the EU who want to just do casual work/volunteering in the EU are generally subjected to limiting work visas. I do see some benefits to leaving the EU in some ways, but like I've said before on galaxy, I'd only be comfortable leaving the EU with a very different type of government.

Let's be honest, how likely is it you're going to do volunteer work in the EU. Countries in the EU have a pretty high standard of living compared to say, Africa. There are people all over the world doing volunteer work. You don't need to be in the EU to do any of that. You keep going on about the Commonwealth. Indeed, there is actually a world outside the EU. It just feels to me you can't see the forest for the trees.

So to take this further, what do you think France should do? Or do you not care?

Well, France is in a state of siege at the moment. On the last terrorist attack, the president said that terrorist attacks are something the French people have to get used to. What!? It most certainly is not. It's because of this freedom of movement why this is happening. If you called a vote now, they would vote to leave the EU too. As for immigration, they're part of the same problem. France can't really stop them unless they reinforce border controls. I'm telling you Ian, the EU is on the verge of collapse. They keep insisting on freedom of movement but haven't a clue how to solve the migrant/terrorist crisis. As is stands, you can't unless you leave the EU. Thank Jiminy, we're on an island surrounded by water.

A superman complex?! A feel this is very much moving away from a debate and more toward name-calling.  But I'll try with a dignified response. You say I want to help everybody. I ask you who do you want to help? How far does your empathy for other human beings extend? Only for those born in the UK? Or only England? Or only your county? Or only your town? Or only yourself? Although I've accepted throughout this debate that the refugee problem is complicated with no easy answers, I struggle to understand palming off the suffering of other human beings as not my problem.

On a personal level, I'd be sad of course if you, Hicks or VenomX suddenly popped your clogs. On a general level, I care about the standard of living that we're facing in this country. That is why we pay our taxes afterall. If it's something that directly affects us, I care. But I'm not going to start crying every time there's a crisis in Timbuktu. The fact is people are dying every second of every day every where. The world doesn't stop just because of that. That vast majority of us are pretty selfish and can't really see that far outside of our own personal bubble.

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